What does the collective intelligence of this group think are the best SF shows on the small screen?

I love Dr. Who and Firefly.... definitely my faves of the SF variety.

My personal favorites: Bablyon 5, Farscape, and Firefly. I wish Crusade had been left alone by the network executives and allowed to develop.

Slightly beow that I'd place Stargate: SG 1. Also (although older) Blake's 7 and The Prisoner.

I never really got into Stargate: Atlantis.

Doctor Who is quirky, but I've liked every incarnation.

You'll get lots of praise for the various incarnations of Star Trek, but I think every one of them were less good than the series I've mentioned above.

I didn't like either version of Battlestar Galactica, although I watched every episode of both (mostly because there wasn't any worthwhile alternative when they were on).

Message edited by its author, Apr 5, 2009, 11:08pm.

Doctor Who at the top. The first few Star Trek incarnations next, (yes I was a fan as a child), then Firefly. The Twilight Zone should be up there too if it counts, since it still is on the small screen for a marathon every holiday.

The first few seasons of Stargate were fantastic, but I can't put the whole show on my top three/four.

Babylon 5 heads my list. All Star Treks except the last one make my tops list. I'll add Life on Mars (U.S. version) though I like the 1973 aspects as much as the SF elements.

I watched Firefly and think it might have evolved into something I could put in my top list, but it was too uneven for me as is.

Plymouth might have made my list if it had made it past the pilot. Moon colony, miners verses small town folk, good cast.

I'll admit to liking both the original Battlestar Galatica and a short lived series called Space Rangers. I wouldn't put either in my top tier favorites though.

Though they aren't my favorites, I can see how Stargate, Farscape, Dr. Who and the current BSG could be on some people's lists.

Message edited by its author, Apr 7, 2009, 3:24pm.

Battlestar Galactica, The X-Files and Farscape.

Never got into Stargate. The old Dr Who serials (pre-RTD) are often terrible, and the new ones are a bit hit and miss. Firefly was cowboys in space; don't like cowboys. Babylon 5 was a soap opera in space; don't like soap operas. Blake's 7 had its moments. Buck Rogers in the 25th Century is embarrassingly bad. I'll watch the various Trek franchises, although of the four DS9 is the most watchable. Star Cops I remember as being quite good. Space: Above and Beyond is dumb. Andromeda was like Farscape but without the wit or the charm. Never got into Red Dwarf or Quantum Leap. SeaQuest DSV was pants. UFO wasn't bad, although it hasn't aged gracefully. The first season of Space: 1999 is watchable, the second isn't.

Classics: Survivors(orginal), Cold Lazarus, The Prisoner, Edge of Darkness, X-Files

Promising: Survivors(new), Heroes, Lost, Fringe

Killed in their prime: Jericho, Invasion

Will watch: any Star Trek, any Stargate, Babylon 5, Farscape, Doctor Who, Lexx, Firefly

Yet to see: Battlestar Galactica(new), Outer Limits(original), The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr., Charlie Jade, The Lone Gunmen

I like Doctor Who (duh! see my username), Firefly, Babylon 5, early to mid Star Trek series (did not always have time to watch the later incarnations).

Remember fondly Blakes 7, Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet, UFO and bits of Space:1999.

I have a slightly guilty fondness for The Tomorrow People, which had a fantastic and to me very appealing concept somewhat let down by cheap SFX and some truly appallingly badly done alien costumes (even for the 1970s) and a tendency to use "humour" that often didn't work.

Wow, I remember loving Outer Limits when I was a kid, kind of forgot about it until I saw the name :)

Maybe you guys can clear up what exactly Kingdom Hospital is for me, whether it was SF or something else or some weird hybrid. I really liked that show, and if it ends up being deemed SF, that also falls under one of my faves.

I would also recommend Dollhouse, currently on Fox on Friday evening for some technology-based, not terribly futuristic science fiction.

Battlestar Galactica has been a long time favorite...the original when I was a kid, and the re-imagined version is even better. Firefly was also very cool and had it not gotten the network-screw-over it would have been an all-time great.

#9 Which version? The original Danish or the inferior US remake?

>12 Well, I'm pretty sure I haven't seen the Danish version, so I guess that leaves the 'inferior US remake'

>12 I think both are horror, rather than SF.
Mine: Early Dr. Who, Firefly, Blakes 7 (early days). X-files through season 6.

Seconding #10... Dollhouse is excellent. Old episodes are on Hulu for free to catch up...

>14 That's kind of the direction I was leaning until it was on the scifi channel, but me and giving things classifications don't work so well :)

I agree that Dollhouse is a good one on now, but I like Joss Whedon in general.

"The 4400", "Battlestar Galactica," "Firefly," and "Dollhouse" (especially the ones penned by Whedon).

"Lexx" is awful crap.

"Red Dwarf" is very funny and very smart. An example of sci fi comedy that isn't part of the Terry Pratchett-Douglas Adams Hivemind.

17: I forgot about Red Dwarf. What an unfogivable oversight on my part! That goes in the "quirky, but I still like it" category.

Among the newer ones, The 4400 (cancelled), Battlestar Galactica, Eureka, and Fringe are our favorites.

Farscape is top of my Sci-Fi tv list. Such a shame that it wasn't allowed to end properly. After a tentative start, Dollhouse is beginning to shape up rather nicely.

Oh! And for the Red Dwarf fans amongst us, you'll no doubt already be aware of the impending 3 part special that's airing on the Dave channel in the UK this weekend?

It's nice to see so many mentions of Firefly - that show was excellent - quite a variety of settings and stories, and great characters.

I've been liking the new Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles series, too. Yes, logic is disregarded in the series, but I always had a liking for the Terminator franchise, except the third movie. I also quite enjoyed Doctor Who. Apart from that, not too much SF television.

Thanks for the recommendations made so far.

In no particular order:

Both Stargates - looking forward to Stargate Universe
Firefly - I like westerns, I was raised on them
Battle Star Galactica (the newer one) - too many reasons to list
Quantum Leap
Life on Mars (American version - died way, way, way too soon. Someone needs to put Harvey Keitel back on the small screen soon)
The Sopranos - alternat(e)(ive) history

Ah, geneg, I toyed with adding Life on Mars (American version) to my list, but couldn't decided SF or not. But I'll definitely second it, and second the notion that it died way, way, way too soon.

Going to retroactively add it in. :)

Why accept inferior American knock-offs when you have the original quality BBC drama? British Life on Mars FTW :-)

I've seen both. The American version after about six episodes stopped relying on the BBC version and struck out on its own with its own story lines and so forth. In the end it was, IMHO, a much more American version occupied with distinctly American issues and as a result, a much better show. It was definitely preferable to that idiotic American Idol, another knock-off of the Brits.

Speaking of the British, I am envious, and if you guys are not "down in the garden" you need to be. I saw an article saying "The Wire", arguably the best television show ever made, is playing the first season. Oh, to have five years of unviewed episodes of "The Wire" ahead of me. If you aren't watching it, you are denying yourself a true pleasure. Turn on the closed caption if you have to, but for God's sake, watch it.

My God thought I was the only one who remembered The Tomorrow People - good to see others with guilty pleasures. On the newer side of things loved Firefly, enjoying the new Dr Who (grew up with the Tom Baker years), collecting Eureka as I like quirky comedy, and must admit to enjoying Babylon 5 - the later seasons were especially interesting to me.

Anyone remember that shortlived space comedy about garbage haulers in space? My memory is getting spotty these days

>26 You mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(TV_series) ?

#25 Yes, I've heard it did its own thing. And the final explanation for the time-travelling was... silly.

Unfortunately so, but they had to cobble something together to bring the show to a close. It should never have been canceled so young.

We're starting to get 'Ashes to Ashes' over here (the sequel to Life on Mars) and it looks pretty promising. I love Whedon but 'Dollhouse' is a bit on the grim side, I'm still rooting for it to succeed but it lacks the usual Whedon humor. The dorky tech who reprograms the dolls is just lame rather than funny.
As an aside it's nice to see Nathan Fillion (of Buffy and Firefly) is working again. A new cop show called Castle, reminiscent of the old Remington Steele.

Not sure about favorites, but Primeval is a lot of fun if you haven't tried it yet. I've seen it on BBCA but it starts on SciFi this Friday with Season 1.

#28, 29 Yes, I've heard it did its own thing. And the final explanation for the time-travelling was... silly."

Yes, it was rushed due to its premature cancellation. However, I think it was far from silly. Gene's white shoe stepping out of the airlock onto the moons surface leaves it open as to whether Same might still be dreaming/coma/whtever. His mother had stated that Sam's childhood wish was to grow up to be a policeman or an astronaut. The spaceship might just be no more or less real than his 1973 experiences.

I particularly like it because, while a remote possiblity, it does leave it open for either the second phase of whatever is happening to Sam or a near future space adventure. Not likely, but I could go for either one. The cast was great.

Message edited by its author, Apr 7, 2009, 6:37pm.

>31 I've got Primeval set to record on our DVR. My wife watched several episodes off Hulu, I think. She enjoyed it.

'Primeval' is considered by the cognoscenti to be the show that 'Torchwood' ought to have been.

Primeval and Torchwood are indeed different, but I'm not really sure which one I enjoy more. Except I was quite disappointed with the end of season 2 of Torchwood due to (spoiler type comments removed here). Of course, I am not of the cognoscenti by any means.

30, I love Castle. Not sci-fi, but a great show.

I was disappointed with the end of Torchwood season 2 as well... it seemed pretty random and contrived. Overall I like the show though, haven't seen Primeval so can't make a comparison.

30, 36: I am enjoying Castle as well.

30: Are you still watching Dollhouse, or did you stop before the 6th episode? If you stopped, you should know that everything following ep 6 is penned by Whedon himself, and has a much more Joss-y flavor. Nerd becomes more fun (think Xander or Wash). British lady in charge becomes more Giles-y. In short, much better show.

I've enjoyed nearly every show mentioned, I think: some favorites include second Battlestar Galactica, Firefly/Serenity, all the Stargates, most of the Star Treks--original and I agree with Ian that DS9 was the best of the rest.

I've been watching Babylon5 again on Hulu and in the first season it was a bit clunky with some fairly wooden acting, but it improved as it went on.

Like Eureka and Dollhouse. Far prefer the British Life on Mars. Enjoy Dr. Who, Torchwood, Primeval. I liked Dark Angel.

For nostalgia purposes, Lost in Space.

I have mixed feelings about the X-Files, which veered too much into horror at times. Also liked Wolf Lake, whatever category that should be in.

For what it's worth, someone out there is developing a remake of V. Might be interesting.

#38 I have mixed feelings about a V remake....!

I think my favourites are well known here: Firefly, Babylon 5 & Red Dwarf.

I too fondly remember Blake 7 & Lost in Space and Sapphire and Steel (was that sci-fi?). I also enjoyed the whole of Lexx for some reason but went off Torchwood, Charlie Jade and the recent BSG.

Is anyone going to watch/have watched the new Red Dwarf episodes?

I liked Lexx for the campy bizarre nature of it.

Forgot to mention Sliders--liked it much more at the beginning than toward the end, when it got darker and the main characters met appalling fates.

#37 - Yes, I'm up to the 9th episode of Dollhouse. Only 6 is penned by Whedon (although some are penned by Jed Whedon who is, I guess related). Episode 9 was pretty good, the character of Adelle (Brit boss) developed nicely. Topher still deserves a personality transplant (which they could do after all they have the technology).

Some shows are just too dark to sustain interest even X-files had jokey episodes. Fringe would be unwatchable if it wasn't for literally mad scientist Walter who's just one of the greatest TV characters around at the moment. Dollhouse needs more of that, it's okay, but one expects JW to be much better.

I went off Torchwood after a while. Elements of 'Queer as Folk' and musical theatre seemed to be overwhelming the show and detracting from what should be at heart an action adventure.

#39 There's new Red Dwarf episodes? Where? When?

>41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dwarf:_...

In no particular order:

Battlestar Galactica (the just concluded version)
Firefly
Star Trek/Star Trek: Next Generation/Star Trek: Deep Space 9
Farscape
Stargate SG-1/Stargate: Atlantis
Babylon 5
Primeval
V the mini series (not the show that followed)
Alien Nation (including the TV movies that followed)
Red Dwarf
Quark
Sanctuary
The Twilight Zone (original)
The Outer Limits (original)

Not quite SF but close or more fantasy:
The Greatest American Hero
Highlander

I'm sure there are some others, like first season of Heroes, but I can't think of them. And I've never seen more than 2 episodes of Dr. Who, so can't count that. Yet. I do like Torchwood, but haven't seen enough of that yet, either.

Blake's 7
Doctor Who (1963-1989)
Babylon 5
Star Cops
Firefly

off topic

Message edited by its author, Apr 27, 2009, 10:03pm.

Definitely Firefly and Red Dwarf, and I rather liked Andromeda, at least at the beginning - it got kind of weird toward the end.

Message edited by its author, Apr 15, 2009, 4:33pm.

A bunch of folks are mentioning this Red Dwarf show. I've never heard of it! I guess I need to find it :)

I actually managed to find the first series of "Red Dwarf" at the library today. I have never watched the show before, and am looking forward to it.

Battlestar Galactica (the new one), Firefly and Stargate SG1 (and and SG Atlantis)

Firefly, Farscape, X-Files, Star Trek, Star Trek: Next Gen, Eureka, and Red Dwarf. ETA . . . and Stargate: Atlantis, what I've seen of it.

Message edited by its author, Apr 20, 2009, 10:50pm.

I could never get into the muppet/human world of Farscape.

The first season is a bit up-and-down, but it's worth persevering as it really picks up in season 2. By the time it packed in, I suspect it had a higher ratio of good episodes to bad ones than any sf television series. Well, until the new BSG.

I agree - I thought the first chunk of Farscape was winceworthy (for me it was the story and the horrid music), but then it started getting really /good/. Like. Really. I was quite surprised! I suggest persevering.

I have loved original Star Trek since I was a kid, also loved ST The Next Generation (a Capt. Picard fan)! Babylon 5, Star Gate SG1 especially the early seasons, not a Claudia Black fan. Loved Firefly. Dr. Who is either really stupid or really interesting-hit or miss with that one, my favorite Doctor is the curly haired mop-top one Tom Baker? Red Dwarf is always good for laugh love the humor.
Loved X-files in the early seasons, later it got too strange, hated the awful movie they recently did. Does Kyle X-Y count? I've seen the first season and want to see the second. Breaking Bad is a sort-of science oriented show, too, waiting to see it from netflix.

All of my favorites have all been mentioned, but I'll give a short list.

Babylon 5 - the greatest television show ever made.

Farscape - watchable with the missus too.

Star Trek Voyager - I've seen and enjoyed them all, but I am a sucker for time travel, and nobody breaks the temporal prime directive like Janeway :)

Red Dwarf - Series 8 was dissapointing, but this is a good show to watch with non-sf junkies.

Greatest American Hero - My favorite show as a kid. The social messages and the alien connection qualify it as sf imho.

Battlestar Gallactica (2004) - I enjoy the camera style quite a bit. It's gritty, sometimes shaky, as if it were combat photography.

X-files - The first 3 seasons were great. The rest is OK as long as you don't take the long story arcs that seriously.

Quantum Leap - Not groundbreaking, but entertaining.

Dr. Who - I really liked the third doctor (Jon Pertwee), but never got into the rest.

I hear rumors from the UK that the 10th Doctor's days are numbered and the 11th is already lined up.

I enjoy a lot of the ones that have already been mentioned: especially BSG, B5, Firefly. I'm just starting in on the new Dr. Who, and I really liked Torchwood.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Jeremiah. I'm a sucker for anything post-apocalyptic, so I loved it. (I also kind of loved Dark Angel, but I wouldn't necessarily call it "good.")

I totally forgot the Middleman! It got killed off after the first season, but it should be out on DVD soon.

#56 The 11th Doctor will be Matt Smith. Unless I've lost count and you're on about the next Doctor...

Best show of recent times has got to be LOST I think it's one of the cleverest tv series in such a long time, sf or otherwise.

I know this is OT but I can't find a Star Trek thread in a hurry, so... I didn't think William Shatner was in the new movie, but here he is.

Message edited by its author, Maijs 13, 2009, 6:49pm.

#59 No, you've got the count right. No. 10 was David Tennant or as Billie Piper liked to call him - David Ten-inch.

>62 I'm ashamed to admit that I just went looking for the story behind that nickname, not to mention pictures. Yes, deeply ashamed. Perhaps Dr. Who should spank me . . .

ejj1955, I think you need a sonic screwdrivering!

I'm prepared to take my punishment like a woman!

I just couldn't choose! Find your own sonic happiness.

Jim

ps Is that your library on your profile picture? Looks nice but it needs dusting; get on to it woman!

//runs and hides//
//then runs again//

Message edited by its author, Maijs 14, 2009, 12:37pm.

I wish that were my library! But no, it's in Prague.

Has anyone else seen Space Island One?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Islan...

I found season one of Primeval on DVD, which got a few mentions on this thread.

My reaction to this was... mixed. I enjoyed the "portals-through-time" idea, the huge dinosaurs and other nasty beasties providing cheap frights (which all looked quite good). Having smart scientists figure out solutions to problems is also quite fun.

On the other hand, I don't enjoy the huge lapses in logic that occur quite often in the show, often required to build tension, or that seem to have stemmed from working out an idea, but not quite going through to it's logical conclusion. I would go into this if required, but I don't like spoiling shows.

Enjoyable, but disengage your brain.

The cute blond with dark roots in her underwear is a nice touch.

dark roots in her underwear? I think that's too much information!

;)

I knew that sentence was awkward when I wrote it.

As Sean Connery/007 put it, "as long as the collar and cuffs match."

Have been a Dr. Who fan since the days of Patrick Troughton (now I'm showing my age!!!)It's certainly come roaring back - have enjoyed every season with David Tennant, Great Stuff!
Babylon 5 Rules!!!!!(Peter Jurasik and Stephen Furst were among the guests at the Starfleet Ball in Bournemouth this year).
Quite enjoyed Deep Space 9. (Can't get enough of Gul Dukat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Remember Tomorrow People and Lost in Space fondly.
Loved Blake's 7!!!!!!

Is anyone out there a fan of Codename-Eternity or am I the only one????????

I don' t know that one, but given the other things you like, I suspect I'd enjoy it a lot.

I always thought ST:DS9 was the best of the spinoffs. More fully developed alien cultures. Love the Ferengi!

Codename - Eternity used to be aired at about 12.00pm, and for that reason, has a fan base of about 4 (to my knowledge!) Also, the episodes were sometimes screened out of sequence. However,it contained this wonderful android character called Mr. Dent (played by Gordon Currie) he was totally psychopathic and one never knew which side he was on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, DS9 was pretty good, wasn't it. My best memory of the Ferengi - Armin Shimerman and Max Grodenschick at a Sci-Fi convention, 4 years ago, solemnly ( and correctly) reciting the Rules of Acquisition!!!!!!!

Message edited by its author, Jūn 4, 2009, 5:12pm.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Alien Nation yet, it's story line resonates even more today then it did then.

#77

Are you going to do a quick sell of the show, as it seems to have slipped beneath the radar of this discussion until now?

I liked Alien Nation also; the premise was that a shipload of thousands of alien slaves landed near Los Angeles and the slaves--and their overlords--were integrated into the population. The movie and subsequent series focused on one alien who became a cop and his human partner. Over the course of the series the human overcame his prejudices and not only became friends with his partner (and his family), but also ended up dating the hot alien chick down the hall.

One of the things that made the series interesting was the well-developed alien religion and customs. There were some little quirks, too, like the mating rituals necessary for reproduction and the fact that the aliens got drunk on sour milk and, though stronger than humans, were mortally injured by contact with sea water.

Sounds interesting - I will have to look out for that one. Thanks, ejj1955.

The movie Alien Nation was good but the TV show was better. The movie was a big budget shoot'em up with a good underlying premise. The TV show, with a smaller budget had to concentrate with the premise and take a close look at prejudice. It was a good show.

Alien Nation is an interesting example, rare in TV SF but common in the written form, where the topic is present-day and ever-relevant: trying to understand across cultures, trying to fit in without losing identity. But by setting in a science fictional setting, they can avoid triggering anyone's biases about any real ethnic group or historical baggage. It wasn't (most times) a very deep show, but it was a sincere one, that continued on in a several made-for-TV movies.

Chris,

'trying to understand across cultures, trying to fit in without losing identity. But by setting in a science fictional setting, they can avoid triggering anyone's biases about any real ethnic group or historical baggage.'

That is well said, I am going to try to show it to my wife who seems to fail to 'get' that about science fiction even though she uses clips from 'Third Rock' in the intercultural relations class she teaches.

There is a movie coming out later this year called "District 9" which starts with the same premise as "Alien Nation" but goes in a completely different direction.

Just watched through "Earth: Final Conflict", it's another of those 'based on an idea from Gene Rodenberry.
Basically it's about aliens coming to Earth, there's some interesting ideas about (alien) spirituality and the soul and stuff like that, it went for 5 seasons which is quite surprising, I imagine had it been made now it wouldn't have got past 2. That said they probably should have ended it on the fourth season.

Odyssey 5, it only got to one season, but it's a different take on the science fiction end of the world time travel sort of story with a relatively good cast.

Crime Traveller; Female scientist who works for the police has a time machine in her flat (created by her father), a police man finds out about the time machine...(that's about it really) This British drama series starring Chloe Annett and Michael French, it's a pretty interesting idea with much of the time travel theory being explored, it wasn't renewed beyond its first season (of 8 episodes).

Ultraviolet - Gritty British drama series about vamps (who are never called as such). (Just corrected name...oops)

Jeremiah - Post apocalyptic drama series starring Luke Perry. The post-apocalytpic world is conveyed pretty well. It ran for two seasons with the first probably being better than the second. Basically the idea was a virus wiped out everyone under the age of 16, it's set 15 years or so later.

Roswell - Okay so this was called 'Dawson's Creek' meets 'The X-Files', but watched from start to the end of its third season it's got a relatively good story and character development. The cast is convincing, the stories for the most part are pretty good.

Message edited by its author, Nov 11, 2009, 8:00am.

I thought it was called "Ultraviolet" rather than "Ultraviolent"... although the latter may be a more appropriate name...

@86 Correct, it was Ultraviolet. A six part TV series. Hollywood did a film of the same name which is so very worth not watching.

>87 Oh, yes, that movie was dreadful.

Wasn't Ultraviolet one of Andy Warhol's peeps?

I though peeps were those horrid little marshmallow things they sell at Easter.

I was really pissed off when "John Doe" was canceled. :-)

John Doe! Cancelled just when the friend who'd been working alongside him turns out to be the leader of the "bad guys"!

#92

And then producers say:

1) The friend was the leader of the "bad guys."

2) It was someone surgically altered to look like the friend.

Sheesh.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind could have trusted William Forsythe. Everyone, and certainly Mr. Know-it-all Doe should know he always plays the bad guy!

Here's my list:

Primeval
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Star Trek: Enterprise
Sliders
X-Files
Farscape
Babylon 5

I've watched an awful lot of SF TV. I've enjoyed much of it but back when SF on TV was rare, I'd watch it, no matter how wince-inducing (well, eventually I couldn't take Lost in Space any more).

But 4 series still stand out for me.

Babylon 5
Firefly
Futurama
Space Patrol (1950's American B&W series)

The first three need no further introduction. The last one is my guilty pleasure. When I look today at similar kid shows from that period (e.g., Rocky Jones, Captain Midnight), there's way too much standing around and talking. In Space Patrol, there's a constant earnest headlong rush to adventure in outer space, that still comes across in YouTube clips and the few old video tapes I managed to acquire. Why I read SF now is very different from why I started reading it, but Space Patrol captured the adrenaline rush that first pulled me in.

#96 It was Captain Video and Tom Corbett and the Space Cadets did it for me.

Everyone has talked about most of my favorites (B5, Farscape, ST: DS9, BSG), but I am surprised no one mentioned Andromeda. I really liked that show, even though I had to stay up until 1 or 2 AM to see it (after a repeat of ST: TNG!).

Sorry, couldn't get on with Andromeda. Every episode looked pretty much the same in a grungy sort of way and I could never really extract much plot variation between episodes either. And I always got mixed up between the ship's avatar and that nice lady who used to advertise AOL (in the UK at least).

Mind you, it was a cool-looking ship, and at least the Nietzschians read Nietzsche!

Tyr Anasazi was the best part of Andromeda--but that may be a visceral reaction on my part.

No only did every episode look the same all the actors looked like the used the same plastic surgeon!

#98, I thought the premise of Andromeda was great...a great galactic empire that fell apart. The premise was good as it could be seen from both a historical angle, a prophecy of what may come, as well as it could be viewed as a sort of what would happen in Star Trek if the Federation fell apart. But I lost interest in the series after the first year. I sort of agree with the others that each episode started to feel like the rest. I suppose this could be said about Star Trek or really most of all of episodic TV in general--both scifi related and not, so I will not criticize the show or those who enjoyed it. It just wasn't something that I chose to stick with.

I was fine with Andromeda until the SF channel took over. The it became generic and silly. Same thing with Sliders. Limited budgets will of course cut into the effects, but they needn't cut into the story, except that they did.

Hey! Noboby mentioned The Starlost. lol.

I enjoy alternate history stories (let's not start the 'is alternate history sf?' debate AGAIN, please!), so when I saw 'Sliders' for the first time, I was all agog. A whole tv series devoted to my favourite sub-genre!

After about five episodes I could stand it no longer. It was like working in a chocolate factory where they let you eat anything, knowing that by the end of your first week, you'll HATE the sight of chocolate and will never touch it again (at least, not during working hours). With 'Sliders', I completely OD'd on alternate universes and just couldn't watch it any more.

I think I watched all of Sliders, but I really lost enthusiasm when the major characters started dying or disappearing. Not so fun, that.

>100, you have a point there, lol.

I suspect that part of the reason I like the show so much is that I didn't actually see it regularly--it might have worn on me more if I did. I liked the Nietzschean society idea, I thought it was an interesting concept. I wasn't so fond of the change when they all went to that desert world, though, and didn't get along or trust each other any more. I did enjoy the show--I probably wouldn't have liked it so much if I did see it every week, but I probably would have still watched.

What kind of good sci fi shows are on now? I was so excited about getting Uverse finally and having the SciFi channel, but then I discovered they actually show very little science fiction. It all seems to be horror when I look to see what is on. It seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot--sf fans don't watch because it isn't sci fi, and non-sf fans don't watch because they think it is going to be sci fi.

>106 No kidding, I wish the executives at SyFy (they've made the switch now, I'm just following their questionable lead here) could read your last sentence.

For what's on now that I watch, here's a partial list--but some of them are on hiatus or in repeats or returning soon or the like, and they are not all on SyFy:

Eureka (returns tonight!)
Doctor Who
Torchwood (BBCAmerica; five-part miniseries is next week!)
Primeval
Sanctuary
Warehouse 13 (okay, I've only watched the premiere ep, but I'll hang in there to see how it develops)
Lost
Dollhouse
Heroes
True Blood (on HBO; horror? fantasy? not sci fi, but bloody good fun)

Of course, SyFy repeats a lot of old series, from Lost to the X-Files to Joan of Arcadia, the two Stargates, Star Trek: Enterprise, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, and so on.

Upcoming series from SyFy include Stargate Universe and Caprica, a prequel series to Battlestar Galactica.

Weekends are the worst at SyFy; it's tacky horror flicks all weekend long. When you get down to it, their roster of original programming of actual sci fi is pretty darned thin. Anorexic.

Don't even get me started with the SyFy thing--it fills me with a rage that is all out of proportion to the actual importance of the change, ;-).

I will have to check out some of your other suggestions. I am not into the vampire thing, so True Blood is probably out, but some of the others look interesting. I am afraid to start Lost and Heroes now, though, because from what I hear the stories are pretty complicated, making it seem that it would be hard to jump in the middle. Still, I can always read up online if I need to do that.

#107

The five part Torchwood mini-series was this week in the UK. It has just finished.

Wow - the best Torchwood has ever been. Up there with the best genre TV there has been.

I'm not going to give out any spoilers - although it will be easy to find them if you look on t'internet. It was one of the top trending topics in twitter - purely on the British showing.

Fell apart a bit in the last two episodes though, didn't it.

The first few seasons of StarGate: SG1 are good. Never did care for Stargate: Atlantis.

The original "Outer Limits"

As for True Blood, I didn't think I would like the vampire thing, either, so what they did was they added in a shape shifter, a voodoo witch, an evil what? goddess maybe? All kinds of stuff. And even the vampirism is not so much of the sort I remember from vampire movies. It's a very good show, all told, and at least for a short time, Stephen Root as a gay vampire was just too delicious.

BTW, Anna Paquin is no longer the little girl from The Piano, but a full fledged woman, one who is not afraid to demonstrate that fact with remarkable regularity.

On the whole I recommend it to anyone interested in good, soap opera style television with the production values of HBO series. Not to the standards of The Wire or The Sopranos, think Entourage with ghouls.

On the whole a very enjoyable show.

#110

No - I think it held up quite well. There wasn't a deus ex machina ending which RTD often throws in. About the only weak thing was Gwen making her video in the shed. In a couple of weeks BBC America will have shown it and then we can talk a bit more about it without spoiling it for a lot of the readers here.

Showing my age:

Lost in Space

Time Tunnel

Land of the Giants

The Champions.

I keep forgetting the name "The Champions," but yeah, I loved that series. Not sure it would stand up but I wouldn't mind seeing it again to find out.

Has anyone seen Warehouse 13? It is you know sort of Raiders of the Lost Ark meets the X files, but something about it is very fun, sort of restful to watch. Not whedonques but so little is.

I disliked the ending to BSG so much that now it isn't one of my favorite shows anymore.

Supernatural is sort of good. Well the young guys are cute, of course I just want to feed them a good meal, poor skinny things.

However is "fantasy" okay to put in the favorite SF show list? Does anyone else just sort of lump them together?

I'm trying to think of shows on now, or in the fall, that are actual science fiction. Dollhouse, but I have mixed feelings, not that I'll ever miss an episode. But isn't it hard to think of right now shows about science fiction?

They still show it on TV in the UK via Cable. The one I liked best was Time Tunnel did you ever see that?

I'm still sort of waiting to see how Warehouse 13 develops. Not sure I'm that crazy about either of the two main characters, though I like the older guy at the warehouse.

I always enjoy Eureka, though. It's just fun.

The five-night Torchwood series was good, but also painful--I don't think I could watch it again.

I know this may be heresy to some, but I do lump my sci fi and fantasy together, even here on LT--for me it's one tag in my library.

#119

That's fair enough - there are too many SF&F novels that blur the line between the two, and there is always the old adage: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

> 177 Supernatural is one of my favorite shows in a long time. It's that rare beast that seems to be getting /better/ as it goes, and it doesn't typically pull its punches!

Yes I agree about Supernatural! In fact, I think they've sort of written themselves into a hole, but somehow I think they are going to crawl out of it -- and I'll like it.

I've gradually begun to warm up to Warehouse 13. I think once they find the right balance of humor and action it will be a pretty decent show.

I've got the entire, ten-disc Red Dwarf box set, and am currently half-way through Season 3. Excellent show.

I just got season 1 of "Earth: Final Conflict" from Blockbuster. I can't believe I haven't come across this before. And checking amazon.com, it makes me sad that not all of the seasons are available for purchase.

.. I mean, it's no "Firefly", but then again.... what is? :)

Season 2 turned into a shoot 'em up action show. Remind me, did season 2 last its course, or was it pulled part-way through? It certainly died part-way through season 2...

Given that all the Roddenberry spin-offs were actually thinly-disguised versions of the Trek universe, I assume that the events of 'Earth: final conflict" were supposed to be after Earth's first contact with the Vulcans. In which case, I think it's even sadder that we didn't see stuff more like season one, because the Taelon were rather interesting - far more interesting, and with better back story, than the Vulcans!

>126 - not only did it reach the end of season 2, there were another 3 seasons.

>127 - Good grief. You learn something new every day.

"not only did it reach the end of season 2, there were another 3 seasons"

...but you can only get seasons 1, 3 and 5 on Amazon.com. WTF????

So far, the character of Da'an is what makes the entire thing for me. Although the political complexity of the relatiotionship the Taelons have with earth, and with themselves, is also fascinating.... amd, as Message 126 said, much more complex and interesting than the presentation of the Vulcans (at least, from what I know....)

I've been watching Roswell - got through the first ten episodes so far and loving it.

It's a teen drama, featuring aliens that look exactly like humans. So far, it has decent acting, a decent plot, and enjoyable characters.

Thanks for mentioning this, tangerinealert.

Star Trek - all
Quantum Leap - funny and slightly historical
Earth 2
V
Eureka
Warehouse 13
Alien Nation
Babylon 5
X-Files
Roswell
Farscape
Lost In Space (loved that show.Danger Will Robinson, Danger!)
Dr. Who - new one
Seaquest
Earth Final Conflict
Sliders
Heroes
Lost

>131 Yes to all. But the mention of V reminds me of another one, canceled all too soon, called VR-5. Anyone remember that show? Interesting premise, I thought, and plenty of angst for the main character.

Hello, Showing my age here:
Fireball XL5
Stingray
Thunderbirds
Invaders
Joe 90
UFO
Captain Scarlet
Space 1999
Prisoner
Red Dwarf
Star Trek - DS9 the best
Sliders
Survivors (original & new series)

A short British series - The Flipside of Dominic Hide

Third Rock from the Sun - great for a laugh anytime!

>103

I have fond memories of The Starlost.

Harlon Ellison and Ben Bova were behind the original concept, but Ellison apparently dissociated himself from the project when it strayed beyond his vision.

I always thought it would be a great concept for a movie, but apparently the rights to the idea became embroiled in some legal wrangling back in the 1970s; the same wrangling (together with poor ratings) that killed the original series.

I'd love to get my hands on all the episodes on DVD, if it were possible.

I enjoyed the series for 3 reasons:

1) Thanks to Ellison and Bova, the concept was fantastic:

Premise: three adventurers escape the confines of their self-contained 'world' only to discover their world is one of many on a massive colony seed ship that has been damaged and adrift in space for centuries.

Their quest to find out what happened to the ship (the crew are all long dead), with the limited help of a creepy A.I. ("Can I be of assistance?"), as they encounter other 'world' modules on it, had limitless possibilities;

2) Keir Dullea (sp?) had the lead role of Devon. He discovers how to open the the hatch connecting his world module (which resembled a 19th century Amish community) to the rest of the derelict ship. His sense of wonder at the technology he encounters outside his world module is really cool; and

3) the show was filmed and produced in Canada (Toronto, as a matter of fact). Very cool. I'm Canadian, so this means something to me!

Message edited by its author, Aug 20, 2009, 3:27am.

134> The Starlost is available on DVD. It comes up in my Amazon recommendations. I watched it when it was first on because I was so desperate for SF on TV that I'd watch anything. I even watched Space:1999 in French. Anyway, I wasn't very fond of Starlost and I wouldn't pay money for DVDs, but if the library had it I might watch it to see if it was as bad as I remember.

I have a book, Phoenix without Ashes, by Ed Bryant and Harlan Ellison, about Starlost. A great script turned into ... cow flop, as Ellison puts it. To me, the series looked like it was filmed in a high school gym.

Having just received my complete Starhunter season 1 dvd, I'll add this series that I forgot to include on my original list. I liked Starhunter, yes I did.

The basic setup seems remarkably like the basis for the later Firefly series. However, Starhunter is very low budget. It also wasn't sexy, hip, and full of action and clever dialogue like Firefly. But it feels more real to me if I'm trying to imagine life on a bounty hunting starship. I also like the divinity cluster story line and the characters.

There was a series out several years ago called VR5. I think itstarred Lori Singer. I enjoyed those and have looked for them to be released on DVD. It hasn't happened that I knoe of. Anyone else remember this series?

>138 . . . see post 132

A new one for British tv starts soon called Flashforward, have seen the trailer I would say it is very gnostic looking :) and look forward to watching it.

My absolute favorite is Farscape, but I also love Babylon 5, Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes, and Doctor Who. I liked Star Trek The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager, but hated Enterprise.

Lexx: The Dark Zone was cool, just because it was crap. I also liked Andromeda and watched Star Trek NG & DS9 from time to time. Stargate wasn't my cup of tea.
Of many of the shows mentioned here if never heard before - I have to change this ;)

>140: I wonder if the British Flashforward is the same show as the US version coming out soon (which is getting a LOT of hype btw...)

...where everyone passes out for 10 minutes and dreams about the future...

Message edited by its author, Sep 17, 2009, 7:58pm.

Yes it is the same one and it is of interest to me both philosophically and scientifically because it seems to imply that humanity is manifestations of the One Mind which in the west we call God.
So, I am going to make this an exception to the rule and watch it, I don't normally watch tv and if this based on a book I would rather read it than watch it.

@140: I'm looking forward to Flashforward too. I've not read this novel, but I recently read WWW:Wake, Robert Sawyer's latest book and enjoyed it.

Loved Dr. Who and Torchwood - I try to forget what happens so I can watch the seasons over and over! The latest Battlestar Galactica was worthy of purchasing the complete series.
Firefly was wonderful and original and had so much talent and character and originality - a travesty that it did not make the cut. I thought Sara Connnor Chronicles should not have been canceled and was glad that Dollhouse made it to the new season.
On the lighter side, Eureka and Warehouse 13 are amusing but not OMG good. Fringe (X-Files-ish) and Sanctuary have some potential.

Message edited by its author, Sep 19, 2009, 11:59am.

I just watched the first episode of the new season of Dollhouse and what do I see? Helo and Apollo going after one another. Is this genius or dumb luck or coincidence?

Message edited by its author, Okt 20, 2009, 6:53pm.

I'm voting for not a coincidence. Not sure about the other. Also not sure where the show is going.

So far I'm finding Flashforward interesting. But I kind of hope it doesn't turn into the Lost-type of endless puzzle/conspiracy/clues that are never answered thing.

Really enjoying Stargate Universe, too. Certain formulaic bits are just fine with me.

When will the new crew and passengers of the Destiny (?) come to realize that the ship knows they are there and is in the process, from week to week, of restoring itself to full functionality. I think the next episode will be Rendezvous with Rama as the Destiny refuels itself. So far the story arc is a kind of moving Atlantis but with no way home and no enemies, yet.

I'm enjoying it, too.

Where in Canada are those sugar sands they were wandering around in looking for CO2 scrubber material? In the other two Stargates every planet looked a lot like Vancouver and area, but the sugar sands have me stymied.

Message edited by its author, Okt 21, 2009, 10:15am.

After reading through this topic and cogitating on my favourite series past and present, from the earliest Dr Who, through Blake 7; The Tomorrow people, Startrek to Primeval, and reflecting on what made sure I followed every episode, I've realised the two main attractions. An imaginative theme and attractive female stars. My daughters are right it seems; I am a bit of an old perv !!
Oh and #149, I think you'll find those sands in Mexico

#150

Are there any shows with unattractive female stars?

Rock of Love, any of the Housewives of.. series, anything with any Khardasian in it, The Hills, The Wendy Williams Show, etc., etc..

Honestly, I've never heard of any them.

You are one lucky rojse!

Another question I would ask is whether those shows have been successful or not.

I am sorry to admit that the fact that I have not heard of them does not mean they are not - my knowledge of popular culture is somewhat lacking.

I'm not sure what side of the pond you're on. They are American reality shows, quite dreadful and very popular. Further evidence of the fact that half the population is below average intelligence.

#156

Fortunately, I live in Australia, which has not yet imported all of America's (and Britain's) trashy reality television. We're working on it, though.

>157

For the sake of your culture, sanity, etc., hope that the "Housewives" series doesn't make it to your shores. It's "The Real Housewives of Orange County (California)," "The Real Housewives of Atlanta," and some other iterations, featuring glossy women with too much plastic surgery and too much money being bitchy. I've mostly picked this up from ads for the shows--I'm happy to say that I don't watch them.

I've pretty much stopped watching Heroes, as I got tired of the same characters switching sides and going back and forth in time--it got very convoluted. I happened to catch it tonight and nope--don't feel I'm missing anything there.

#158

Wow. "Real Housewives" does sound like shit. I think it made pay television over here, actually. I don't have pay television, myself - I don't like paying for all the channels I would never watch just for the few that I actually would.

However, I would like to withhold my previous judgement of Heroes until I have watched Season 1 at least - it does sound like an interesting concept, and I have been told that the first season is the best of the lot.

The remake of "V" begins tonight, and the remake of "The Prisoner" starts soon. Let's hope they are both good TV. For now Stargate Universe and Sanctuary, and especially Fringe meet my criteria. I'm on the fence with FlashForward.

LOVED BSG (orig. version when I was wee, and the new version blew me away and made me a rabid fan all over again). Great TV.

X-Files.

Also oldie - I loved Space: 1999 waaaaaay back when.

Stargate Universe reminds me a bit of BSG, I'm not sure why. Darker, more edgy than SG1 perhaps? Fringe is definitely the better X-files (and John Noble should get an Emmy). I've only Hulu'd the first episodes of Flashforward and Dollhouse so it's too early to tell.

And, I know it's not SF but it does have Nathan Fillion, what has happened to the writing on Castle? Seems to have fallen of a cliff!

Rojse, if you can, get yourself a copy of the first season of The Wire. It's not SF but it may be the epitome of American Television. After the first season it just gets better.

I enjoyed what there was of Defying Gravity and thought it set up enough story lines to make it interesting for the full six year journey. Too bad others didn't.

SG-U has been fun so far, but some of the switching bodies or psyches or whatever they are doing is kind of strange.

I like Castle.

I watched several of the first season of Fringe, but lost interest. I tried Sanctuary and lost interest there, too. I like Dollhouse and haven't seen FlashForward.

I agree about the Wire best TV series ever and unlikely ever to be repeated.

I like Castle too but the last two episodes (season 2) very mawkish and trying hard to be "worthy". At it's best the series is reminiscent of Moonlighting or Remington Steele. The light tone of the first season episodes made it appealing without that touch the series becomes just like all the rest.

It's interesting that half the regular cast of Flashforward are from the UK or Ireland (there were quite a few of them in the Wire too).

The first time I heard McNulty speak with his normal accent, I almost dropped my teeth.

Any scene with Michael Williams (Omar Little) in it is a television treasure. He and Andre Royo as Bubb(le)s were my favorite characters.

I'll have a look for "The Wire", as I have heard good things about it. From the sound of it, it seems it won't be in my price range for a while for boxset DVD's (twenty to forty dollars, depending on what television show it is and whether I have watched it before or not).

I thought the epitome of American television was American Idol. Live and learn, I suppose...

Message edited by its author, Nov 5, 2009, 12:27am.

Epitome or nadir?

Doesn't epitome mean that it is most stereotypical, most representative, of American television?

EDIT: If we are discussing good American shows, I'd put in a plug for "Big Love". It's a good idea central idea (a drama centred around a household practicing polygamy) that is presented in a fair and reasonable manner, interesting story arcs, and excellent acting.

Message edited by its author, Nov 5, 2009, 6:53am.

Well, yes - but it hardly seems fair to say that from someone whose country gave the world "Neighbours" and "Home and Away"...

167: American Idol isn't even an American original. The idea is an import from the U.K. Blame them.

We only made it to sell to the US :-)

Rojse, if you do find The Wire you will probably need to listen to it with the subtitles. When the street speaks it can be hard to understand.

Maybe epitome was the wrong word, apex might work better. I've never seen an episode of American Idol and can't comment. I like it that way.

Big Love is great.

I am enjoying Flashforward we just had episode 6 of 22 in the first series. So far it sits well with my theology, I am a Gnostic my Philosophy it is all predetermined Plato. And my Science, Sheldrake, consciousness does not arise in the brain it comes through it! Nice to see that the Global Consciousness Project, Radin et al are being brought to the attention of the masses.

I'm watching all seasons of "The Wire" via Netflix. It's actually why I joined. I'll be able to watch the whole series for a little over the cost of one season on DVD.

What do you think of it?

You know, it never won an Emmy for best drama. Go figure.

Message edited by its author, Nov 5, 2009, 1:16pm.

I just finished the first season and it was excellent. I'm queuing up the second season and will be starting on that as soon as I can. I don't have HBO so I missed this when it originally aired, but I can say that I am now hooked.

#170

Touche.

Onto a decent SF television series, I just finished watching season two of Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles. The acting and characters are largely excellent, the story arcs are interesting, and the expansion of the ideas that arose the first two Terminator movies is interesting.

I didn't like the part of John Connor, though - his character was very inconsistent, and I don't think his behaviour would be that of a person in his circumstances.

>174:

I'm enjoying FlashForward at the moment. It is slipping into a bit of a rut, though - are the flashforward visions evidence of pre-determinism or merely possible futures? Quite a few episodes now have put the envisioned future at risk and then pulled its chestnuts out of the fire at the last moment. But at its heart there's a conspiracy thriller, and don't we all just secretly love conspiracy thrillers? (As long as we don't actually start believing these things...)

Apparently, it's based on a Robert Sawyer novel, and isn't he normally a pretty rationalist sort of writer?

BBC2 (terrestrial) has picked up 'Defying gravity'; I like it quite a bit, but I'm amazed how much it looks like its BBC/ProSieben docu-drama original (as discussed earlier in its own thread). It's not just the premise of a solar system grand tour, it's not the look and feel of the sets and hardware, it's not even the verismo docu-drama style; some of the shots and effects are actually direct copies of the earlier show, such as the main character's flashbacks to the Mars mission.

I think I've worked out the tacked-on alien plot, though. And I'm kicking myself for taking three episodes to do it, too. I must be slipping in my old age.

SG:U is only getting satellite showings in the UK, and as I won't honour Clan Murdoch with my hard-earned I only get to hear about it from the other half who has cable. She isn't impressed, and the one episode I've seen so far didn't impress me either. The grittiness is OK; rather, it's a matter of whether you care about the characters, and frankly I saw none that I wanted to get to know better. The use of the Ancient consciousness-swapping device has the potential to become very confusing if too many people end up using it, given the convention the programme makers use to show who's who at any one time.

The big problem, though, is that SG:U lacks what made SG-1 and Atlantis fun - the fact that neither show took itself too seriously. Even BSG managed a joke at its own expense now and again. Perhaps SG:U will pick up as it gets into its stride.

The last episode of Flashforward did rather jinx the predestination scenario what with the FBI characters suicide, the conflicting visions of another FBI agent and his fiance and the return of the AA sponsors dead daughter.

180 you seem to be further into the plot than we are here in the UK so I would not know. LOL

Are you blocked from Hulu'ing the US episodes?

Never knew they existed but I am happy to watch them unfold here on UK tv.

Does anyone know if Defying Gravity will be taken beyond episode 13 on BBC2? It was such a cliffhanger ending...

#170
Do you think why John Conners character is portrayed inconsistently might have something to do with the anti-male bent of the entire show?.
Just asking.

> 184

The network is still silent but it doesn't look like it. The creator says the actors have all been released and the sets have been destroyed, and that the show is “pretty much dead”. A DVD collection of the 13 episodes is due to be released January 19.

Check out http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2009/10/29...

Message edited by its author, Nov 9, 2009, 6:26pm.

#185

Perhaps you would like to describe as to what you mean by an anti-male bent in "Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles", because I didn't see it. The show had several strong female characters, certainly, but that doesn't make it an anti-male show.

The only real problem that I would single out with TSCC is the occasional plot inconsistency required to make the show work, and most of them are the result of the inconsistent character of John Connor.

I have nothing at all against strong female characters. Well, actually, I do when they are just a cipher, but of course the complaint then isn't their sex, is it, it is that they are badly written.

I am not a frequent TV watcher, so have only seen about 4 full episodes. I have seen quite a few parts of others. It has been on here for two years or more, so I can't hope to give you case by case, more just my accumulated opinion.

Each time a decision was made, and I mean every single one, it was made by a female character, but only after she first either asked for or was given some males opinion and then either angrily told him he was being stupid, explained to him some facts he didn't know about, or derisively laughed at his silly idea.

No female was manhandled by a man in any episode I saw, but JC was repeatedly thrown about, pushed, struck, shot at etc, sure, not always by women, but 90 % of the time iirc. lol. OK, maybe only 70% of the time. And it was a female robot, I realise, not a real woman in the stories context, but, seriously, come on, if in 1950 someone made a movie where a woman was repeatedly beaten by a male looking robot, would this be considered "Oh, it wasn't really a man, just a male figure!".

I think one time and once alone, I saw him do something successful where some female character didn't either direct his choices, or come to his rescue. He is forever asking "What is happening" to a female character, who kindly fills him in.

Now, if we had a TV programme where this was all reversed, condescending male talking down to, and directing the choices of "silly female", wouldn't both you and I consider it, with disdain, a throwback to something from the 50s, and in our present society, something made deliberately anti-female?.

And when you consider that the male in question is "John Conner, saviour of humanity" , well, it has me thinking the programme has a heavily anti male bent.

And as well as how the lead character is treated, male characters are dealt to by the terminators something like 10 to 1 in regards to the females.

Is equality just a eight letter word?.

#188

I have to disagree entirely with your interpretation of TSCC, Annodyne. There were male and female characters. These characters had to receive information from other members of the "team" in order to be able to make effective decisions. This worked in both directions - females occasionally disregarded what males said or advised, but the males occasionally disregarded what females said or advised.

As for no female characters being man-handled, you must have missed all the episodes where "female" terminator Cameron fought against "male" terminators, always with some difficulty, or all the episodes where Sarah Connor took a beating while trying to stop the resistance. Must have missed all those, right?

I don't think that a television show that was created by a male, and presumably has a target demographic in young male adults would be anti-male.

I especially don't think an anti-male show would depict the female characters of Jesse Flores (Derek's love interest), and Riley Dawson (Connor's love interest), in the manner that they did.

#188

Can I presume you have some issue with how women are depicted in SF? You're having a discussion with IanSales about female characters in another thread at the same time, too.

188>
Are you prepared for the new hole you will be reamed in here for that un-pc if largely true statement? :)
I've never watched that show, because to me it isn't Terminator without the Governator, but you just described about 90% of the modern SF I've seen or read. Which is why I stick to the golden oldies.

My favourites in no particular order

UFO
The Champions
The saint
Captain Scarlet
Thunderbirds
The Prisoner
Phoenix Five
Twilight Zone 50`s &60`s series
Outer Limits 60`s sreies
Star Trek
Star Trek TNG
Enterprise
Battlestar Galactica (New Version)
Babylon 5
Star Cops
Life On Mars
V
Sliders
Sea quest DSV
Mysterious Island
Lost In Space
Space 1999
Dr Who old and new
Quatermass
1984
Tripods
Timeslip
The Tomorrow People
Land Of The Giants
Voyage to The Bottom Of The Sea
The Invaders
Quantum Leap
Sapphire and Steel
The Time Tunnel
Sarah Connor Chronicles
The Avengers
The New Avengers
The Martian Chronicles
Stargate SG-1
Stargate Universe
Search
The Man From Uncle
The Six Million Dollar Man

Enjoyed all of these at some time although some could be classed as spy-fi

#192 are there any that aren't favourites? I think you've got them all there.

I don't know, he doesn't like Firefly, Stargate Atlantis or X-files.

A rhetorical question: How is it possible NOT to like Firefly?

#195 if you haven't seen it?

196 > that is a large hole in your life experience that needs filling...

;)

Message edited by its author, Nov 11, 2009, 12:19pm.

197: 196 > that is a large hole in your life experience that needs filling...

I don't think so. I have gotten along just fine without having seen any episodes of Firefly.

#198 - You don't know what you're missing. Great show! One of the few that is actually worth the time it takes to watch.

Mal: Yeah, that went well.
Inara: You call this going well?
Mal: We got the loot didn't we?
Inara: Yes, but...
Mal: Then I call it a win. What's the problem?
Inara: Should I start with the part where you're stranded
in the middle of nowhere or the part
where you have no clothes? -Firefly

*snerk* now I have to get my Firefly DVDs out and watch them again! I love that show...

Hey - did you see the Halloween ep of Castle, where Castle (Fillion) dressed up in his "space cowboy" costume? I loved it.

Is that your halloween costume, daddy?
Yes.
What are you going as?
A space cowboy?

Wunnerful wonnerful wonnerful. I loved it!

oh I did too. Capt Tightpants rides again. Forgive me, I couldn't resist.

I think what hooked me on the show was the end of "The Great Train Robbery" where Mal goes up to the one thug, holds out the money & says he's returning it. The guy tells him he's dead, so he kicks him into the engine, then goes the the next bad guy, who wisely accepted the money. That was just so perfect! No stupid arguing. He also shoots fast, not a lot of silly jabber. They really goofed with that show. It could have been such a hit!

rojse & Annodyne 188,189

""Perhaps you would like to describe as to what you mean by an anti-male bent in "Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles"""

I think I remember that series, is that the one where they send robots back in time to stop teen aged guys from wearing eye make up? Did the robots ever win?, I was pulling for them. :-)

Message edited by its author, Nov 12, 2009, 2:25am.

I see Inara has re-appeared as a lizard in the V remake, Wash as Alpha in the now cancelled Dollhouse, and Kaylee in the cancelled SG Atlantis. Seems an unlucky crew.

>206 Well, they keep getting work, anyway . . . Wash is also in V, as the lizard FBI guy. He supposedly got killed in the first episode but in the second they show him waking up again, so . . .

And Inara had a nice little gig as Adria in Stargate SG-1.

Very true. If you're a casting director the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

Inara played a nurse in a short lived doctor show called Heartland, also.

It might interest SG Atlantis fans to know that Jason Momoa (Ronon Dex) is currently in Morocco filming Game of Thrones for HBO. He'll be playing Khal Drogo

X-Files
Star Trek (any of them but TNG and Original are faves)
Battlestar Galactica (new)
Eureka
Twilight Zone (b & w)

I kind of liked "Journey Man" (or was it "Journeyman"?) on NBC but they killed it.
ABC had a sci-fi show on for about 2 minutes that was pretty good but (again) they killed it. :(

So far I have really enjoyed the first two episodes of "V". We'll see if the rest of the season continues to be as good.

I loved the first season of Fringe, we'll see if the second stands up to the first.

Firefly and Battlestar Galactica so far are my favorites though. I'm still waiting to see if Caprica becomes a show. :)

-Kat.

According to the all-knowing always correct Wikipedia, Caprica will start in January 2010 on SyFy.

SyFy agrees: I saw an ad for it yesterday.

Firefly rocks on so many levels. It was too good to last, sadly. About a million times better than anything on offer today.

And here is one way it was awesome. All its characters are equal if they care to be, or can be. No one is slapped down because of who they are, they are only slapped down if they refuse to fight for their rights ( or for their comrades ) And everyone talks down to poor old Wash, lol, but who do they want flying the thing?... and none of them would second guess Zoe in a pitched battle if she gave an order, the command would be hers by right.
The female characters are brilliant in that programme , every bit as much as the males. My favourite character by far is Zoe, she seems absolutely to be a real person, a fully formed character to a point that you almost never see in art. And a hero. And competent. And a more than a little skeptical of blokes, as a rule, but then, so's Mel, right?.

See, that is the thing, I have not the smallest problem with strong female characters*. I would insist on every female character being so, if I had my way.
I don't even have a problem with ones that trot around saying "men are only good for one thing, and only THEN when you take time to train 'em" because, after all, lots and lots of men really are in fact utter bastards, why shouldn't some of them also be in make-believe entertainment?. And why shouldn't some female characters basically be down on blokes. They ( male and female characters ) have every reason to be, but they also have some of the same reasons to be down on sheilas. HUMANS are best treated as untrustworthy until they prove otherwise.

Just as, given the rights they deserve implicitly, lots and lots of women are a match or better for men in all ways. Being ratbags OR heros, strong or weak.

I only have a problem when, in pursuit of an agenda the ONLY representation allowed is "men useless, women all powerful". It was wrong in 19th century Victorian Jingoistic male sexist literature, it remains wrong today when we have its opposite/counterpart fed to us.

* One of my all time favourite characters in literature
is as strong as she very well could be, Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan . And yet the author doesn't need to point up that strength by surrounding her with weakling men. In fact, she does the exact opposite, Cordelia is so wonderful specifically because she is surrounded by strong male characters and yet no-one, including herself, without human flaws.

#215 > I agree completely. Mal is one of my all time favorite heroes because he doesn't stop to talk a lot, but acts. Every character has their specialty which is acknowledged by the others.

It was too good to last & maybe that's a good thing. If Whedon had been on prime time with it, he'd have had too many idiots breathing over his shoulder as with his other projects.

I need to thank everyone who recommended Blakes 7 on this thread. Although the special effects are rather ordinary (this is the late seventies, after all) it is more than made up for with the well-written story, interesting moral debates, and well-drawn characters.

Oh, and I am near the end of Season 1, and if anyone spoils the series for me, I'll be extremely annoyed.

There's no point in spoiling the series for you. The BBC were able to do that all on their own.

I always thought Servalan was a Margaret Thatcher figure, myself. She certainly exuded the sexual allure of very powerful women (according to the late Alan Clark, so did Mrs. Thatcher; but he went for anything in a skirt so he was probably biased). Certainly many of the plotlines had political subtexts that were very relevent to the 1970s.

217, tell me, am I right in remembering the very first episode was filmed in black and white?. Or was it that I watched it on a Black and White TV?.
We had only B&W TV broadcasting when I was a very little kid, in my country. And then after we had colour, my parents divorced, so some programmes I remember in B&W, cause my dad got the old TV.
And I have always remembered Blakes Seven as changing to colour after the first show.

Servalan was the Queen of our world. :)

Message edited by its author, Nov 19, 2009, 6:56pm.

It's all in colour, and 1979 was a bit past black and white television shows.

From the Television New Zealand site.

For its first 14 years, New Zealand television was a black and white world. The target delivery date for colour television for all New Zealanders was when the country hosted the 1974 Commonwealth Games. There weren't enough facilities to cover all of the Games in colour, however viewers were able to see swimming, track and field and boxing.

So, maybe in your country, and yes, a little bit past it here too, though from memory for about a year or so after that Commonwealth Games they reserved colour transmission for after 7.30 or some other cut off. That didn't mean that we didn't have many black and white programmes for years afterwards. Absolute matter of course that Saturday programmes before dinner were either old movies filmed in B&W, or simply broadcast in B&W. We had extremely high import tariffs in place right up until 1984, which meant even at the movie theaters, we were some years behind the UK and America, TV was much more behind in shows all through my childhood, often as much as five or more years. I know Dr Who shows that I have subsequently seen in colour, were initially broadcast in B&W, because it was considered "Children's Viewing".
And my dad divorced from my mum but still paying for the mortgage on their house, had black and white tv, iirc, until 1980, when I went to high school. So I must have seen the first Blakes Seven while staying at his new house.

I've just finished watching the entire series of "Ghost In the Shell: Stand Alone Complex", a cyberpunk police procedural anime. Excellent animation, and extremely interesting storylines - both intelligent and exciting. I particularly enjoyed the larger story arc about the "Laughing Man", contained within the series.

Just out of interest, why have I not seen any recommendations of anime television shows on here yet?

Just out of interest, why have I not seen any recommendations of anime television shows on here yet?

Probably because it's more of a niche market and not readily thought of except in anime communities themselves. You do know there's a 2nd series to Stand Alone Complex as well as a movie which continues on from that also?

222> While I have no problem telling people I read sf or watch sf movies, I don't often bring up anime in conversations. Most people have no idea what you're talking about, they think you're sitting at home watching The Power Rangers or something. Explaining what good anime is doesn't help because people can't get over the concept that "cartoons" are for kids.

The second issue is, much of anime IS for kids. There is a hell of a lot of dross out there, and it’s getting worse with "American" anime jumping on the popularity bandwagon. I have become leery of recommendations, so much of it seems all style and no substance to me.

BTW: You now know more of the reason I like the Ghost in the Shell books so much. The SAC anime series and the movies have become blended with the manga in my head. The second series is worth watching as well although there is a little more recycling of material going on.

>224 Yes! I have exactly the same problem when trying to explain to my sister why I like the Shrek movies or South Park--she just says, confused, "aren't they cartoons?" Well, yes . . . but South Park in particular is definitely not for kids. Shrek is, but there's so much else going on with all the allusions that there's plenty in there for adults, too.

#223-225
I'm not so concerned about the medium in which a story is told so much as the quality of said story, and I'm at a loss as to why most people think differently.

#223, 224
I've seen that there is a second series, and related movie, but I can't really afford them right now.

#225
I wonder why this perception of "animated stuff is for kids only" is so prevalent in western society.

As well as the It's for kids thing there are also those who still can't see past the tentacles.

True, but that really is a niche culture conversation. In the US people know about Dragon Ball-Z and now maybe Avatar because their kids watched them, but mention hentai or "Legend of the Overfiend" and they REALLY have no idea what's going on.

I am actually waiting for a political eruption over hentai and dating-sim type materials. At some point a politician is going to become shocked, shocked that there is animated pornography being sold in this country, will label it "kiddy-porn" and ignite a firestorm. Cause, you know, animation is obviously aimed at kids. No matter that there are already laws about that kind of stuff. I wonder how the US market for anime will be affected should that happen?

You mean like this?

Yeah, I know about that case, considered mentioning it in the prior post. Point is it's still pretty much under the radar. Other manga is being sold every day in Borders that could be affected by this and there's not yet a peep on the national radar. Hell, my local library has massively expanded their manga collection in the last few years. I found V for Vendetta in the children’s section the other day. Can't wait for the first time a parent looks at what little Timmy checked out.

I guess the "animation is for kids" folks never saw Fritz the Cat, either.

Nobody ever objected in the eighties to RanXerox and his junkie 13 year old girlfriend Lubna.

Getting back to the tv series has anybody any comments about Paradox on BBC does it class as sf or who's going to do it?

I have just heard that the BBC are showing a new dramatisation of Day of the Triffids

#231

Or Itchy and Scratchy.

Oh rojse, if you do want some anime recommendations for sci-fi shows then I'd suggest Crest/Banner of the Stars and Legend of the Galactic Heroes for starters.

davidberry

Day of the Triffids is on BBC ONE this christmas in two parts on i think the 29th and 30th december. It has Dougray Scott, Joely richardson and Brian Cox.

I'm currently watching True blood as I enjoyed the books by Charlaine Harris. However my favourites are old SF, showing my age and years in media fandom.
Babylon 5, Star Trek (original), Firefly, Battlestar Galactica (original), early Doctor Who, V (mainly for Michael Ironside).
I didn't see much of Blake's 7 as it was before the days of videorecorders.

#236

Thanks I hope its closer to the book than the movie was

Wasn't Blake's 7 a bunch of marionette's?

239: (Just in case you weren't being silly). No.

I wasn't so thanks. Obviously I never watched the show. I just can't help thinking they were, though. Oh, well.

241- you're thinking of Thunderbirds, or possibly Captain Scarlet. Or Stingray or Fireball XL-5. They were all puppets. Blake's 7 was live action.

#235

Thanks for that - it's hard to work out which anime is good if you can't really watch any of it before buying. I'll be on the lookout for those.

@243 rojse, that's why fansubs are a blessing. Especially for shows like LoGH which is 110 episodes long for the main show and 3 recap movies with another 2 side story arcs which have 52 episodes between them. Add to that the fact that it was never released to the Western world as far as I know.

#241 - Blake's 7 was Terry Nation, by the BBC. The puppet ones - in SUPERMARIONATION! - were all Gerry Anderson, for ATV. although Gerry Anderson did do some live-action series: UFO and Space: 1999.

davidberry

if you go to the BBC website theres a plot outline and cast details. Unfortunately i don`t think its going to be much like the book.

Terry Nation was of course the creator of the Daleks which could account for the puppet confusion or maybe not.

Is the new V any good? Not arrived in the Uk yet but I read a review that said it was soapy which put me right off.

I like a lot of SF shows but my favourite ever is Babylon 5, followed by Deep Space 9. I also like Dr Who, Farscape and Quantum Leap and the other incarnations of Star Trek.
I also really enjoy Stargate SG1 and Atlantis but Universe so far is terrible. It suffers from the same problem as the first series of Torchwood - it wants to be a soap to attract non sf watchers but they won't watch anyway and it just p**s off real SF watchers. I watch SF for a sense of wonder and possibilities and adventure and maybe sth better of humans NOT to watch a bunch of unpleasant people argue and have sex. I'd watch a soap for that.

I'm guessing that you didn't like Battlestar Galactica either.

I've been enjoying Fringe rather a lot,which is like the X files but interesting!
Not much else TV SF of note apart from Futurama ;)

>248
The new V is glitzy AND soapy. Not even "so bad I love it" - just very bad. Except, as someone pointed out on another thread, it has glamorous female aliens.

I was enjoying Flash Forward - no more new episodes until March - but I won't have the patience if they try to make it into another "Lost"!

>250
Haven't seen Fringe. I'll take a look. Thanks!

>251 I can't believe they even thought of bringing V back-it was dreadful the first time around, worse than Battlestar Galactica,and that's saying something!

>252 And the new Battlestar Galactica really was a reinvention of the old one, whereas the new V is very much like the old one, as far as I remember--just a few decades later with a different cast.

>253 i didnt like the new BG either, just bored me!

I grew up on Dr. Who and Star Trek. I remember Space 1999 and Battle Star Galactica on TV even had Trek, Space 1999 and Galactica toys but find today when ever there is a good SF tv series it doesn't last because SF readers/fans are the only ones that really relate to the TV series and mainstream audience only enjoy Special effects that defy physics, lots of laser noise and love triangles.

Firefly was my last favorite series on SF and I really enjoyed the few episodes of Star Trek Enterprise. Next Gen was ok and I never got into the others

Lets face it, if it is truly classified as SF it doesn't last. I wouldn't classify X files and nock off x files as SF these show are paranormal fluff with Alien undertones. although they may be entertaining they are not truly SF to me.